Actor Carl Lumbly Reflects on Alias, Captain America, & More

In this episode, host Tara Jabari interviews actor Carl Lumbly, known for his roles in Captain America, Alias, Doctor Sleep, and more. They discuss Lumbly's portrayal of Isaiah Bradley in the latest Captain America: Brave New World, a character rooted in historical injustices faced by African Americans, and the thematic elements of love and sacrifice in the Marvel Universe. Lumbly shares insights from his career, including his experiences on Alias and his aspirations to write a one-man show about James Baldwin. The conversation highlights the importance of collaboration and respect in the industry, as well as the anticipation surrounding Lumbly's upcoming projects.

Marvel’s Captain America: Brave New World opened in theaters on February 14, 2025.

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Transcript

00:02 - VO (None)
Quiet on the set. 

00:07
All cameras, please. Action. Welcome to Media Maker Spotlight from Women in Film and Video in Washington DC. We bring you conversations with industry professionals for behind-the-screens insight and inspiration. 

00:30 - Tara Jabbari (Host)
Today I have a very, very special guest. He has over 150 credits in theater, film, television, voiceover work. Welcome everyone. This is Media Maker Spotlight. I'm your host for this episode, tara Jabari. Carl Lumbly is a well-respected, recognized and certainly busy man. His most recent film project, captain America Brave New World, is where he returns playing Isaiah Bradley, and we're going to talk about that and some of his other projects. Welcome to the podcast, carl. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you, tara. My pleasure, carl. 

01:01 - Carl Lumbly (Guest)
Thank you so much for being here. Thank you, Tara. 

01:04 - Tara Jabbari (Host)
My pleasure. So I'm going to geek out, but we'll be here for the reason why you did come here, because I don't want to get in trouble with Marvel and Disney For me, how I have, even though you've been in so many things, the one that. Can you guess which one I recognize you from the most? Do you sometimes know when a Alias yes, oh my God, I was like Dixon, yeah. 

01:37 - Carl (Guest)
Yeah, alias Loved that show. 

01:40 - Tara Jabbari (Host)
Loved it. For me, I was like a 13 year old girl when that show came out. I can't even remember, but I was young, um, a teen and that was and. But I was raised on James Bond and even the tv show Mission Impossible would kind of be on television. My mom's like, oh, come watch this show, and then the movie had come out, and so it was always males, know, and the woman was kind of like a side piece or kind of like not Now you had a woman who cried, who worried about her father and her best friends and her and then her partner, who she had to lie to. Who she had to lie to is this man. And then, and there was such a lovely relationship you and Sydney Bristow, you and Jennifer Garner had and it was such a positive role model for for girls but for people to see. And it was so great. Oh, loved that show, loved it, I love doing it. 

02:41 - Carl Lumbly (Guest)
I have to tell you two things yes, please do, loved it. I love doing it. I have to tell you two things yes, please do. That helped me. 

02:48
One I was raised with three sisters. I was an only boy and so I was dissuaded very early that there was any difference between the capability that a girl had or a boy had. My sisters were astounding. And then I was also a mama's boy. I'm quite proud of it. I was my mother's favorite. My sisters can't dispute that. I challenged them to dispute that, and some of that, I believe, taught me. 

03:21
In seeing the difference between the way my mother and my father moved in the world, I knew that there were roles that were supposed to apply, but it was also quite clear that it was situational. There were times when my mother, who was very, very soft, very sweet, very demure, very thoughtful, very spiritual, could put the fear of God in you when she was at that point. So there was. To me it began to make some sense that there was a different way to wield power, to use power, but that it all comes from the same place. Both my parents loved us fiercely and that's the way they operated when it came to the relationship with Sidney Bristow, you can recognize brilliance, you can recognize excellence and certainly if it's in a co-worker, you see and you know, and I think that for many women in certain corporate sittings, in certain business situations, it was clear they were the right ones, they were the sharp ones, but because of the way society was ordered, they had to report to a man who could then take their brilliance and move it forward. In this instance she's a shining star and at the point where the series starts she has tremendous potential but she is not seasoned. 

04:51
And I guess, because wisdom is that marriage of intelligence and experience, that was what Dixon felt he was given the privilege of being a partner to, but also helping to kind of steward and help her know the decisions that she has to consider, not help her make them, because she's too capable. She knows that. But there are things where, if you aren't experienced, there are things you may or may not see. And also I think Dixon, as people tend to be, especially if you have children yourself, is very protective and it was a beautiful working relationship for me, the way we were able to work together and then the way, as time moved forward, we were able to work together. And then, the way as time moved forward, you saw that Dixon no longer had to, or felt he had to, herd on her instincts or be or guide. It was collegial and it was a privilege to be able to have the partnership work as effectively as it did. 

06:10 - Tara Jabbari (Host)
And then they had these other female you know kind of spoiler, but it's been a while, you know. They find out she has a half sister, or they meet this young woman who thinks she's working for the CIA and she's not. Sydney, as well as Dixon and all the others, are like well, we have to help mentor them. They're capable, they're smart, so it was so sweet. And so you're like oh, the student. 

06:34 - Carl (Guest)
And it was happening in a world that was ever changing and was based on a history that you could not write. That you could not write, but they did, involving a reach-back century for everything from technology to I don't know wig parts. It just seemed like that way. We didn't know when we came in what necessarily we would be facing, what challenge, which villains would be emerging to try and upend the world. All we knew was that we had a responsibility and we just try to do the best we can for as long as we can, and if we were unable to save the world, we would at least be going down with it. 

07:24 - Tara Jabbari (Host)
Oh, you guys did such a great job and it's been so nice to see like you guys sometimes have reunions and I'm like, oh, they're together again. But you are here for, uh, captain, america is back, but not with steve rogers, and and so is your character, who was introduced, uh, on screen from the miniseries Falcon and the Winter Soldier, isaiah Bradley. So, for people who might need a refresher or might not know, isaiah Bradley was after Steve Rogers who was given the super serum. They did it to a bunch of other people, but it was primarily African-American men during the Korean war, correct? And this is also based off of true stories, unfortunately. So it was based on the state of Alabama. The study. 

08:15 - Carl (Guest)
Tuskegee yes. 

08:16 - Tara Jabbari (Host)
Tuskegee Right, and this was true. Which was basically the Tuskegee experiment was they were giving African-American men with syphilis oh, we're going to give you these treatments and free medical care, and for 40 years they actually were not. There was no justice and many of them ended up dying. Similarly, they took that true event and they put it into Captain America comic books the first one being in 2003, and used it to introduce the character of Isaiah Bradley Correct? 

08:50 - Carl (Guest)
Absolutely, that's right. 

08:53 - Tara Jabbari (Host)
And so now with Sam. What's the Anthony Mackie characters? Sam Wilson, wilson, wilson. He is now Captain America, that's correct. And he doesn't have super serum right. 

09:12
No, he doesn't have super serum I always wonder about that, but he wants to bring some sort of recognition of all the other Captain Americas, including you, who has survived but was also imprisoned, so that they can keep it a secret of what they did to you. Reasoned, so that they can keep it a secret of what they did to you. And it's no, I don't think it's a coincidence that it's coming out in February, which is also Black History Month. So I was curious on how did you personally, as well as the film, without giving any spoilers, but did you guys do any research or how did you decide to kind of not shy away that the American history of wrongdoing, particularly against African-American people, and also still honor and move forward? 

10:01 - Carl (Guest)
Well, I think I have to credit Marvel for that. It was their conception. So the timeline is there was project uh rebirth and in that uh steve rogers accidentally became a super soldier, and the same individuals who conducted that project broke off and decided to form the Super Soldier Project, utilizing testing on black GIs only to determine the right dosage. 300 soldiers were killed and seven, I believe, made it out, isaiah's character being one of them. Of that seven, through one mishap or another it was whittled down until there was only one left and there was a mission to try and destroy the super soldier camp and camp schwartzpeter, which was in germany. Steve rogers was supposed to be there for that. He was stuck on a ship in the pacific and the only individual who could pull it off was and the only individual who could pull it off was Isaiah Bradley. So he was essentially sent in for a suicide mission. It was not expected that he would survive, but he went in because, like so many black men of that era, he not only believed in this country and loved this country, which I think is a key reason. I think it's very appropriate that this film is coming out during not only Black History Month, but on Valentine's Day. So there's. I think love is underestimated in the entire Marvel world, by people who look at the world, because I think so much of what drives these individuals, in addition to having superpowers, which also have to be maintained in battle, but they're driven by the heart, and so that is why Isaiah did what he did and, unfortunately, because it was a secret and because they weren't exactly certain how he had survived, they framed him for having stolen the Captain America costume when he went on this mission that he was not expected to return from. And when he was indeed returned when he survived, I'll add, after having a meeting with Hitler and Goebbels, where they were deciding just exactly what to do with him and trying to entice him to fight for the Nazi cause and that if he did and the Nazis won, they would free all black people. 

13:10
Well, obviously cynical, and one of the lines I love and for me it typifies the character is, after they're pitched to him to come over and join the other side, he says, guys, no, my wife would kill me. 

13:26
And he's a young man who left a pregnant wife and while he was away, she gave birth to his daughter and he never met the daughter, and that was the last he had seen of his wife. So that was the kind of sacrifice that was potentially possible but that he was willing to make because not only for love of country but for a love of self and love for his people. And that belief that in curing the racial problem it would cure America and I think that's that belief is still is still true and still here. So Sam Wilson is atypical and, no, he doesn't have the serum, but I think he has something much more important he has the love, he has the heart, he comes from social work and he wants to right wrongs, allow voices that are unheard to be heard, and see if we don't have other ways of bringing ourselves together through listening and finding the same love that we have inside ourselves and other people. 

14:43 - Tara Jabbari (Host)
And Isaiah's grandson. He did get to know his grandson, according to the comics the grandson becomes Captain America. We don't know that in the films, we shall know. 

14:55 - Carl (Guest)
So there is some sort of it's not like a happy ending, but at least Isaiah does get to know his family that he did have to sacrifice that time with yes, and so to make clear, we're about the, the, the comic book, the truth, the, that um seven uh part uh comic series and of course, the uh falcon and the winter soldier took isaiah in certain other directions. Um, but yes, that's the, that's the story, that's the source story and I credit Marvel again for creating that story. 

15:35 - Tara Jabbari (Host)
Is there anything that you wanted to share about this film and the trajectory of how Marvel has moved on, or Captain America or what it represents not just Steve Rogers to Sam Wilson, to the introduction of Isaiah? 

15:51 - Carl (Guest)
Well, first I'll share that I was never a comic book person, so this is all kind of a brand new world for me, and one of the things that I think is underestimated about what Marvel did is there's a I think the theme of love runs through this, this entire universe People looking for love, people who were betrayed in love, people who have all this love to give and no place to put it, people who don't have all of the powers or all of the resources, but because they are so grounded in this sense of all of us sharing this common urge, which is an urge to love, to be safe, to be protected, to understand those kinds of things, I believe if you can elicit that in people, that is a superpower. 

16:55
And so I think the Marvel world has a tremendous amount of fantastic things that are happening, but it is always bound by those relationships between people, and generally those relationships are so strong. The difference between love and hatred is only a tiny, tiny, tiny line. So I think it is all about love, and I think that for me, approaching Isaiah from that standpoint, it becomes the challenge of, if you have loved and been betrayed, uh, do you have the capacity to love again? Um, and so that's that's where I fastened, that's where I hook into, yeah the marvel world. 

17:42 - Tara Jabbari (Host)
Well, it's very exciting to see this and, and it was funny, when people were, I was like I'm getting to interview carl lumbly and um, and for the new captain, america and they're like I thought he died and I'm like you remember anthony mackie's him again like and they're like, oh yeah, that's right, okay so. And then they were like that's gonna be interesting and exciting and all that stuff, so um, but with that comes a lot of things that I'm glad that they're not shying away from. 

18:13 - Carl (Guest)
No, no, no. I would say it's a brave new world for everyone, and I think part of what I get from my brief time here in the Marvel world is that everyone has within them this capacity to be super heroic. I remember when I was young and I read about this idea of hysterical strength A woman's child is pinned underneath the wheel of a car and, without thinking, without doing anything, she runs and she lifts the bumper of the car and she frees her child. What are we capable of? What is inside us when everything is meshed with a desire to see the safety of a loved one or for our own safety? We have capacities within us and that's one of the brilliant things about, and that's one of the brilliant things about Sam Wilson, anthony Mackie's Captain. 

19:24
America is that he's maximizing that, and I suppose by suggestion that means if he as a non-powered human being can do these, then then maybe we we can look again at what superpower all right, yeah, it's exciting, so I do want to also, when I was thinking about them, like, oh, he's now in the marvel universe. 

19:43 - Tara Jabbari (Host)
Comic books are so beloved, marvel is so beloved, um, but you also looking. I mean, you've been almost everything, um, but one thing is that you were playing in doctor sleep as dick hollering yes and that's a whole other group of very passionate fan base yes, yes, yes, so I learned. 

20:10
Oh, you didn't expect. I was like, oh, this is going to be tough for these guys, because this is the. There was the book, which I had read and it's scary. And then the film is the sequel to the Shining Right, right and so, and of course the more famous version of the Shining Scatman Crothers had played him in the 1980 version. There's a miniseries that actually Stephen King liked better Melvin Van Pebbles, pebbles right. 

20:44
Pebbles, thank you, played him. So what was that like when you got the part? And you're like, oh, OK, great. Were you nervous, were you scared? Or you're like I'm going to do this because you guys did great job. 

20:58 - Carl (Guest)
Oh thank you so much. I was scared, the way I am scared whenever I get a role, because you know, you fight for it so hard and you're making this case. 

21:08
Yes, I will do it, yes, I can do it. I can do it if you give it to me, if you give it to me, I can do it. And then they give it to you and oh, I have to do it. So, um, yes, there is that, but it's also, you know, it's the joy of, and the opportunity and the privilege especially of playing playing a character like that, having done by an actor like Scatman, who had done such a beautiful job, and I think for me I wanted to Do both things simultaneously continue what he had done with Dick Halloran and as capable and excited to do the best work possible as he is. 

22:09
I think I've been fortunate in many projects because I've worked with people who want and expect that you'll operate at the top of your intelligence and who assume that you might not know what the top of your intelligence is but be willing to go there. 

22:25
And every character I've ever done has felt like climbing a mountain, and so each stage is, you know, the initial ascent and then getting to base camp and then finally, you know, trying to tackle that summit. If I'm being honest, sometimes you don't quite make it to the summit, but you're on the mountain and you haven't fallen off, and I think that's sometimes sounds a little fatalistic now that I'm saying it out loud, but that is how I feel about it. I think very often it involves taking a leap of faith. In this instance it involved shaving my head. Massive leap of faith, but worth it, because I also think that what Dr Sleep talked about was post-traumatic stress and the way the generations can pass that on from father to son, from mother to daughter, and how, at some point, we have to be aware of the degree to which our past affects our present. It's not really in the past, it's in the present, with us. 

23:47 - Tara Jabbari (Host)
And that's what we carry into the future. And what I noticed again we all know that Mike Flanagan is very talented and you guys worked again for House of Usher and you worked again for a film that's coming out, hopefully this summer, which I'd be happy if you'd come back um but uh, he also got stephen king to re-analyze the original um the 1980 version of the shining. 

24:18
he's like you know what I get it now, why people love it so much and we're like he did the impossible. Like you said, he was able to kind of get people to see the art or the expressions. 

24:45 - Carl (Guest)
Yeah, he, I think, and I suppose I keep coming back to this love theme because I think anything that, of all the things we deal with in superheroes, I think love is the most powerful superpower that we have, and since we're humans and we all have that, then I think that's something that may help explain the attachment to the fantastic. It's nice to imagine that we're all capable of the fantastic. 

25:06 - Tara Jabbari (Host)
Well, I had read that you call or describe yourself as a library geek and that you studied English in college, but I couldn't really find anything that you have written, so I was just curious. It's been all acting. Were you ever interested in writing or any other aspects other than the acting? 

25:29 - Carl (Guest)
Well, I was in journalism before I started acting and right now my only writing project is a one-man show on James Baldwin show on James Baldwin, who is one of my favorite authors and who is one of those figures who is quoted all the time. But his life was so instructional and that's the point of view from which I'm trying to present my sense of who he was. 

26:00 - Tara Jabbari (Host)
Yeah, oh, that's exciting. And is it out Like? Are you performing it? 

26:05 - Carl (Guest)
I did a workshop of it about five years ago and then I'm trying to fit my writing in around all of this activity that is taking place right now. But I am determined it's the only thing in my bucket list. 

26:21 - Tara Jabbari (Host)
Oh, I hope to see it. That's awesome. And then the other thing is that. So last year you received a legend award from the Caribbean Heritage Organization. Congratulations, thank you. And I had noticed, like from all the years, many of your old colleagues, uh, people, including people from alias and even your old friend, danny glover, where you guys had both started on your first on screen and um escape to alcatraz, and everyone from like 80s and 90s and stuff time daily. 

26:57 - Carl (Guest)
Yeah, it was a wonderful, wonderful, a wonderful tribute, a wonderful event, and I felt like it was an award for my parents, because anything I've ever done, I feel like it's been as a representative of those people who produced me not only my parents, but my sisters and people I worked with so I was really honored. 

27:20 - Tara Jabbari (Host)
It showed to me over these many years of working people kept coming back to you to support you and it showed you have something that people were like. This is a person I will always support. And do you have any advice or what do you attribute to that kind of loyalty and success? Like, how did you build those relationships that you want to share with people so that you have that throughout your career? 

27:49 - Carl (Guest)
I respect what I do and I assume yes, I assume that other people who do the work that I'm doing deserve my respect and that I'm going to come back to it again. I love the work, I love the people who do it and I believe that operating from the heart is the key. It makes you listen and it also takes you out of yourself, because we work in a collegial situation and a collaborative artistic endeavor. It's key that you listen. Collaborative artistic endeavor it's key that you listen and there is a sense that all of us together can make something that is so much greater than our individual efforts. So it's wonderful to be on top of your game and it's wonderful to do a beautiful job with your character, but it's meaningless if the entirety of the project isn't realized. So a writer hands you a text, you have a responsibility and the only way to fulfill that responsibility is the people around you. So I love myself and I love them. 

29:05 - Tara Jabbari (Host)
That is beautifully said. Thank you so much. Is there anything that we haven't touched base on that you'd like to share before we head? 

29:12 - Carl (Guest)
off. No, but I would like to highlight that the life of Chuck, which I am so looking forward to seeing, is one of the most beautiful statements that I think is absolutely timely. I think in watching it, people will come to appreciate what a joy, what a privilege we have in being alive, and that that's something that we should not take for granted. 

29:40 - Tara Jabbari (Host)
And Life of Chuck is the latest project you did with Mike Flanagan. 

29:44 - Carl (Guest)
Yes. 

29:45 - Tara Jabbari (Host)
It premiered at the Toronto Film Festival in 2024. Right, at the Toronto Film Festival in 2024. Right, and we're all waiting in anticipation for a trailer or something. But it was a huge success of rave reviews and everything. So us fans are like but what? And then it was released that there was distribution. 

30:08 - Carl (Guest)
So hopefully it comes out later this year and it's based on Stephen King's works or yes, it's, it's a short story that Stephen King wrote and I think it's one of those situations where I'm not sure Stephen King expected that it could be a film. But once again, mike Flanagan who I think you know he's one of those people where you know how somebody would say, well, that's impossible, you can't do that. I think Mike Flanagan is one of those individuals who says, well, maybe it is impossible, but were it possible, what would it look like? And he goes from there so convinced, I think, mr King, to just take a listen to an idea and he loved it. And I'm very excited about both these, both these projects, for different reasons, yeah, ways, but I I look forward to this, as know a year where I got lucky twice. 

31:13 - Tara Jabbari (Host)
Yes, it's been so great speaking with you and thank you so much for your time and we'll definitely share more information as it comes along. Thank you Excellent. 

31:24 - Carl (Guest)
Well, thank you, Tara. Good day to you. 

31:26 - Carl Lumbly (Guest)
Thanks for listening to Media Maker Spotlight from Women in Film and Video. Thanks for listening to Media Maker Spotlight from Women in Film and Video. To learn more about WIF, visit w-i-f-f-v-v-o-r-g. This podcast is created by Sandra Abrams, candice Block, brandon Ferry, tara Jabari and Jerry Reinhart, and edited by Michelle Kim and Inez Perez, with audio production and mix by Steve Lack Audio. Subscribe to continue learning from more amazing media makers. Please visit mediummakerspotlightcom for more information.