Producer Brandon Gets Out to Final Ebertfest and Likes It

Pack your bags and head to small town Champaign, Illinois with Producer Brandon for one last year of the Roger Ebert Overlooked Film Festival, affectionately known to movie-lovers as Ebertfest. Brought back for a final year, festival organizers Chaz Ebert and Nate Kohn programmed a lineup of modern classics and under-the-radar films audiences may have missed. 

First, Brandon sits down with actress Betty Gabriel following a screening of her film, Get Out (now coming up on its 10-year anniversary). Critically acclaimed for her role as housekeeper-with-a-disturbing-secret Georgina, Betty reflects on being a part of Jordan Peele’s beloved horror-social satire’s legacy. The conversation then pivots to Betty’s current and upcoming projects in television and film. 

Get Out is currently available to stream on HBO Max.

Next, Brandon is joined by writer-director Tracie Laymon & actor French Stewart of the Barbie Ferreira & John Leguizamo dramedy, Bob Trevino Likes It. The film follows a lonely young woman (Ferreira) who strikes up a relationship online with a stranger (Leguizamo) who shares the name of her own narcissistic father (Stewart).

After premiering at the South by Southwest Film Festival, the crowd-pleasing film received both the Narrative Feature Grand Jury Award and the Audience Award for Best Narrative Feature. 

Tapping into her own experience with her own father, Tracie discusses the semiautobiographical nature of her film and how the personal themes and narrative have resonated with audiences from all walks of life. In this joint interview, French Stewart provides insight into his role as an unsupportive father and how he approached playing this antagonistic character with pathos and three-dimensionality.  Tracie then touches on how following the worldwide success of Barbie, Mattel Studios hired her to write and direct a live-action film based on the discontinued 90’s cult toy, Tony The Tattooed Man. 

Bob Trevino Likes It is now streaming on Hulu and Disney+

Watch the trailer

To read more about Ebertfest ‘The Last Dance,’ visit: ‘The Last Dance’ Ends a Beautiful, Impactful Run for the Long-time Roger Ebert Film Festival

In the famous words of Ebertfest founder, Roger Ebert: “the balcony is closed”

Transcript

VO  •  00:10
Welcome to Media Makers Spotlight from Women in Film and Video in Washington, D.C. We bring you conversations with industry professionals for behind the screens, insight and inspiration. 

Candice Bloch  •  00:24
Thank you for joining us. Welcome to another of our special guest host episodes where our very own booking producer, Brandon Ferry, is again coming to us from on the scene at Ebert Fest. Hey, Brandon, I understand that Ebert Fest is kind of a nickname for it, but it has a full actual title. Can you talk to us about that? 

Brandon Ferry  •  00:43
Yeah, it is originally the Roger Ebert's Overlooked Film Festival. This was the 26th and final year. It's in Champaign, Illinois at the Virginia Theater, actually where Roger Ebert grew up. And just as it's gone on and on, just having a number of locals and a number of people from all around the globe and the U.S. as well have just come to call it really affectionately Ebert Fest just through Roger Ebert and the continued work to Chaz Ebert as well. 

Candice Bloch  •  01:11
Awesome. So you've had an opportunity to go there and you moderated some panels there and everything. So can you let us know who you talk to and who we're going to hear you speak to right after this? 

Brandon Ferry  •  01:21
First up is Betty Gabriel, who is from the film Get Out. She played the character Georgina in the Jordan Peele 2017 film. She plays a maid that does have a really mysterious secret about herself. She gets into some upcoming projects of hers as well and really reflects the legacy of, I'd say, a new modern classic. And following that film, I did have the privilege of also speaking with both filmmaker, writer-director Tracy Lehman, as well as her actor, French Stewart, from the film Bob Trevino Likes It, which stars both Euphoria's Barbie Ferreira, as well as John Logosamo. 

Candice Bloch  •  02:00
All right. Well, let's give them a listen. 

Brandon Ferry  •  02:03
I am joined today by Betty Gabriel, who stars in Get Outs here at Ebertfest. They are going to be celebrating their 10-year anniversary of the film coming up next year. So thank you so much for joining us today, Betty. 

Betty Gabriel  •  02:15
Thank you for having me. 

Brandon Ferry  •  02:17
Absolutely. So it is coming up on 10 years. I feel like it just ages us all. It feels like such a recent horror classic. How do you feel it's been the last decade or so? It just seems like it's really been immersed in the culture. 

Betty Gabriel  •  02:31
Yes. It's kind of bizarre that it's been 10 years and also that it's been so well received and celebrated. And yeah, I mean, Jordan got an Oscar for it. So that's pretty huge. 

Brandon Ferry  •  02:47
Absolutely. And you do play Georgina in the film. And it is a really complex dual role where you are playing a character trapped in the body of another character. So I do know that last night that Michael Phillips, formerly of the Chicago Tribune, was in attendance. And he even asked about the bedroom scene where you confront Chris, played by Daniel Kaluuya. And you do have a moment where you do break character. And we kind of see that facade drop. He did mention that that was really your role in the film was his favorite performance of 2017. Just love to hear a little bit more about how you did pursue that part of the scene. 

Betty Gabriel  •  03:26
Wow. Well, as you can maybe remember during the Q&A, the audio starts to get a little spooky right when I was answering. It was so funny. But yeah, anytime I get asked this question, I do get a little nervous. So maybe I was conjuring some sort of interruption. But it was definitely a scripted scene. And I stuck pretty close to the script. But as we are encouraged to do, there was a lot of play and a lot of sort of lifting off the page. And that simply came from me really delving into that. I even did some meditations with this woman, you know, interacting with the other woman and yeah, finding their conflict internally. 

Brandon Ferry  •  04:24
Yeah, and I'd love to hear too, as a graduate of Juilliard as well, how did you see Georgina's past life? I mean, did you give yourself a story in a sense or something you and Jordan perhaps discussed as well? Because we only see her at this moment in time where she really is, you know, a different person than she previously was. 

Betty Gabriel  •  04:43
Yes, we did discuss her a little bit, me and Jordan. And he said that she's primarily this, the grandmother. And so I really explored how prominent and dominant she is in this experience and this house and this home she so carefully tends to and loves. And yeah, I think that love applies to the body, to the person she's colonizing as well. I think that's probably even more terrifying than someone really overtly wanting to dominate you. If someone sees you and loves you so much they want to inhabit you, that just gives me the heebie-jeebies. So I really leaned into that. that reality of someone wanting to do that to me and it's just it's appalling you know yeah and I 

Brandon Ferry  •  05:46
do know it was a very interesting I think just kind of audience as well where it is my first time seeing the film on the big screen in 10 years so can you just discuss how audience reaction has been in the past compared to this year because it was interesting you know here at Ebert Fest it is a slightly older, wider demographic too. So was there a little of that juxtaposition of screening this film and seeing audience members laugh at things that seem a little bit off in a sense? I'm just curious how that's, you know, kind of contrasts against other screenings of the film from years 

Betty Gabriel  •  06:19
ago. Well, I unfortunately didn't have too many occasions of sitting in a theater with people to watch this. I have, but one time, you know, it was a sort of later in the run and the theater wasn't that full. The other time it was with the cast and crew of the project I was working on in Australia. And then yesterday. So yeah, I mean, it's unusual to watch it with a room full of predominantly white people in the Middle West. But I do find it quite miraculous almost that people can watch this film and really invest in it and invest in the characters and laugh and be horrified because it's not, you know, the white people are not painted in a good light and they get brutally, violently treated. So yeah, I think that's great that an audience can embrace 

Brandon Ferry  •  07:27
to that level. I mean, I think in years past, I never would have seen, you know, so much empathetic part of it because as a defining feature of our theme rather of Ebert Fest and Chaz Ebert, really ensuring a lot of the film selections deal with empathy and really being able to put yourself in somebody else's shoes. But I think it's a true testament to yourself and Jordan Peele that you guys were able to find the empathy and really have audiences of different walks of life be able to interpret that, maybe think differently of their own, say, behaviors, and still speak to, 

Betty Gabriel  •  08:00
you know, a specific audience as well. Yeah, yeah. So I would love to also speak about upcoming 

Brandon Ferry  •  08:05
projects of yours. I know you mentioned that you have a film coming called Prima, Dave Dunaway, and with your background in dance, I'd just love to hear more about what you can talk about that and what it also been like to dive back into your background in dance and theater in order to approach this role. 

Betty Gabriel  •  08:21
Yes, I so embraced that opportunity and I'm really looking forward to seeing it. I hope it turns out well. It stars Nicola Peltz-Duckham and Faye Dunaway and Mira Servino and Jack Houston. So an amazing cast. And to really get to, one, do dance, be in the dance world. There were so many talented dancers that got on board as well. And also work with some great actors. I mean, it's a blessing. And during a time where the industry feels like it's withering away, it's even more so. Just I'm so grateful for that opportunity. 

Brandon Ferry  •  09:03
Absolutely. And with your background performing at Steppenwolf as well as Victory Gardens, was it something that kind of felt like just getting back into it easily, like riding a bicycle? Or did it definitely feel like, oh, I have to get kind of immersed back into this world, 

Betty Gabriel  •  09:17
not performing day to day like I was previously. In some ways, it was a little bit, you know, shaking off the dust of my dance background. And I was a dancer as well. I started very late in life, but that's a huge part of me. So it was great to step into that. And it did feel like getting back on a bike. Yeah. Unfortunately, I didn't have to do a lot of the heavy lifting with the dancing, you know because I play the choreographer so but I did move I did get to move and I hope it looks 

Brandon Ferry  •  09:50
good looking forward to it and in addition to Primo what else can you tell us about upcoming 

Betty Gabriel  •  09:55
projects of yours well there is a Jack Ryan movie that's coming out I think Ghost War correct yeah yes I have a little cameo appearance in that one but yeah that's the that's coming out and that's kind of it. Prima eventually will come to a streaming platform near you, hopefully. So yeah. 

Brandon Ferry  •  10:17
Excellent. And yeah, just to get a little back to Get Out, as we do approach that 10-year anniversary, what do you see that film's legacy to be? Because it seems like it is something that continues to be in the culture and so many scenes to watch on the big screen again last night. I kind of felt a different way, you know, like I feel like just Lil' Raoul Howery's performance as a TSA agent hits differently now after a lot of things last few months of, you know, TSA agents being all on the news. So what do you see the legacy being as it continues to evolve with the 

Betty Gabriel  •  10:45
culture and being a discussion point? Yeah, I mean, I think it becomes more and more of a documentary, less and less of a make-believe, you know, outlandish, far-fetched reality or a cinema experience. And I remember Jordan saying that about the film almost 10 years ago. And it's even more true. I mean, with all the things coming out and it's just too eerie and weird how it's all mainstream knowledge now. So yeah, this film will probably be relevant for a long time, long past the 10-year anniversary mark. But it's cool to see how it was at the sort of, I don't want to say start, 'cause obviously there were lots of cultural, Black African-American cultural moments. But this piece allowed people to see us in a very different light. And I think that's pretty spectacular and pretty unique about this project, you know? black core didn't really have this much investment or this much texture and this much specificity or, you know, with us at the core of the experience. So yeah, I think that was really 

Brandon Ferry  •  12:13
groundbreaking. Absolutely. When it comes to Get Out and future projects of yours, I think it would just be really great to see if you ever did collaborate again with Jordan Peele 

Betty Gabriel  •  12:21
again one day. I see us, you know, crossing paths again. Can I say something about the fest? Yeah, absolutely. So, last night during my Q&A, I was talking a lot about assimilation and how there's a theme in the film. And I also sat and watched The General this morning. And I thought, wow, this is an amazing film. I can't believe I've never seen it. I've never really seen Buster Keaton, you know, or if I did, I didn't really know it. And then I said, wait a second, is he, is he in the Confederacy? These are, this is the Confederacy versus this is the Civil War, but it's like not within that context or it is, I mean, I need to rewatch it for sure, but because I was a little thrown by that. I mean, to like go back that far and see how cinema, the stories were, what they were being drawn from and inspired by and weren't anywhere close to being woke. It just, it just came, made me think about how it's a part of our culture. It's woven into our culture, the colonization, even in something as innocent as a movie has those roots and it's a part of my ancestry as an actor so I can't deny it and in a lot of more ways I've had to assimilate or had assimilation thrust upon me that's a really 

Brandon Ferry  •  14:01
fascinating perspective especially after screening get out last night and then yeah seeing this film in the morning, just, yeah, just the juxtaposition is really interesting. Yeah. Excellent. Well, really want to thank you for joining us today, Betty. Your performance is still incredible, watching on the big screen once again. I think that, especially that, yeah, I think your scene specifically, I think just really holds the audience and, you know, make you realize it's a truly special performance as well. And just really excited to see your upcoming projects from Prima, the new Jack Ryan movie as well. Just love to see, you know, what else you have coming up in your really eclectic career. So thank you once again, Betty. 

Betty Gabriel  •  14:40
Thank you. 

Brandon Ferry  •  14:41
Thanks for having me. So I'm so happy to be joined today by both Tracy Layman, as well as actor French Stewart, both from the film Bob Tribuno likes it. Tracy, thank you for joining us. You are the writer director of the film. So initially we do talk about the film I described, but since it has been inspired by a real incident of your life, I'd love to hear more about how that started. And then we can jump into, you know, how French got involved as well. 

Tracy Layman  •  15:07
Sure. So it started in real life, very much like the film, where my dad got mad at me and disappeared. You know, he wouldn't return my emails or my calls. And I was such a people pleaser back then. I was like, oh, fix it. Let me get a hold of him. He's on Facebook. Let me put his name. And I heard he's on Facebook. Let me try that. So I put his name into Facebook and accidentally friended another man with his name. And that man was more fatherly to me at that time than my dad had even been. So it's just a story about chosen family and about healing in unexpected places. unexpected connections and unexpected healing. 

Brandon Ferry  •  15:36
Beautiful. And yeah, French, you are not the titular Bob Trevino, but you are a Bob Trevino in the movie. I'd love to hear more about just how you got involved and what really attracted you to Tracy's script. Well, I got involved because during COVID, 

French Stewart  •  15:51
my wife is a member of Tracy's writer group. And so they would bring me in to read during the week so that they could have an actor hear their work. And then they would take turns reading the other stuff. I read for both Bobs. You know, I read for Bob and for Robert. And then she said, when it was getting made, she offered me the part. She said, I want you to play it. And I said, okay. And I thought, oh, it's the good one. She said, no, no, it's the crappy one. So, and it was a wonderful surprise for me because, you know, that type of role doesn't come my way as often as I would like. And so it's just really been a blessing. And along the way, we've also sort of created this wonderful friendship and this kinsmanship from just selling the movie and pushing the movie. So it's been lovely. 

Tracy Layman  •  16:35
I just want to add, he was so incredible. He read both Bobs, like I said, but it was a cold read of a rough draft of unfinished pages. And I don't think Robert even had a name back then. It was like Lily's dad. And he blew us all away. We were just speechless. And we were laughing. And we also didn't like him very much. And French is such a likable guy. So if he can act well enough to make you not like him, he's doing a pretty good job. 

Brandon Ferry  •  17:00
That kind of threw me. I'm like, oh, I love your work. and like grown up on The Rock in the Sun. And I was like, the first time of this, I'm like, that's not Harry Solomon at all. 

Tracy Layman  •  17:09
But he read it so early and I knew, I knew I was like, he has to be in this movie. And it was so long before I actually got to actually go to him with an offer, but I knew that it was him and never went to anybody else. You know, it was just like, give me some time, let me figure this out. I'll get back to you. You know, I'm not getting back to you like Hollywood, get back to you. Like I'm getting back to you for real. Like we're going to do this. 

Brandon Ferry  •  17:28
Awesome. I know we've even discussed before we jumped on just about when it came to casting. One of the last movies they screened here at the festival was a Judy Greer and John Goodman film, Chilly Finger. And you said that same casting director as your film? 

Tracy Layman  •  17:40
Yes, Kate Geller. She's in New York. Her associate director, Ross Shanker, I saw his name in the credits as well. But Kate was wonderful. She brought us John Leguizamo, Rachel Bay Jones. She did the deal for Lauren Lola Spencer. You know, she's just incredible. If I were her, I'd want to take credit for French. But because he's so incredible in the film. But since I'd seen him in the writing group, I kind of already knew that he was the guy. I didn't say no. Yeah, Kate gave her a blessing. She definitely got it. She was on board. 

Brandon Ferry  •  18:10
I think I enjoyed it so much too, especially if her performance was, yes, on paper, I feel like it's something that is very unlikable and can be detestable, but at the same time too, I think it could be a testament to the performance and the writing where I feel like we just know people like that in life. It's not too over the top, but there is still some humanity there. So I'd love to hear about how you approach that because there was humanity there, but at the same time, too, just they felt real. Well, I appreciate it. 

French Stewart  •  18:35
We were really on the same page with it, and our motto was everyone is the hero of their own story. And so he's really kind of probably convinced that by the end of this movie, everybody will understand that his daughter is thankless and that it was all about him. And you have to go at it that way, because otherwise, if you start getting into mustache twisting, it's just a cookie-cutter villain, and the movie deserves so much better because these are real people and they aren't just fully awful. He can be kind of funny and weirdly charming. And so it's really a testament to Tracy's writing because I didn't have to study anything. I think we know all of these people in our lives that give us enough of a basis. We don't have to slap an ism on somebody. You can really just go from the gut and say, I know this person and then just do that. The great thing about Tracy is that her directing style is really more of an extended discussion where you both get agreed on something and then you do that and then you bend it and get it there. But really a marvelous process. 

Tracy Layman  •  19:43
I loved collaborating with French. It felt so easy. We'd both just show up and magic would happen. I feel, you know, looking back, it just feels like magic. I don't even know how we did it. We just, it was just so smooth. And we never used judgmental language about his character. You I'd always be like, oh, yeah, exactly what he was saying. Oh, of course she's going to see. She's going to see that you spent all this money. And she, you know, yeah, anyway, I'm just seconding what he said. But yeah. 

French Stewart  •  20:07
And the notion that hurt people hurt. Yeah. That was the other thing that Tracy put in my mind. 

Brandon Ferry  •  20:11
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it really came off on the screen just like that. So I'd love to hear more about how your leading lady, Barbie Forever, got involved. And also from French when it comes to just the chemistry you had, it seemed like from scene one. 

Tracy Layman  •  20:25
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I knew I wanted her. saw some scenes in Euphoria where she blew me away. And then really most of the time when I was watching any scene she was in, in Euphoria season one especially, I was drawn to her. And most of the things I was feeling was because of her. I was like, I just want more of her. How do we do that? And also Unpregnant, she has incredible wit and awe, kind of childlike awe and Unpregnant. You put all that together and that really is this character, the vulnerability from Euphoria, the childlike awe and wit. Because Lily has to be smart. She's not just manipulated by her dad. She's a survivor, not a doormat. And Barbie's such a strong, you know, force in nature that she could be vulnerable, yet we would never think that she didn't have power over, you know, she's not a victim. Yeah, and then another thing, I think, you know, French flew in and we got five hours of rehearsal, which was not very much. I don't even think we used it all because there was such magic. But I remember one thing is that we improv'd your good times together. Because I wanted, especially Barbie with Lily Trevino, I wanted her to know what she was trying to get back to. Because if it was all bad, you know, and she weren't smart, you know, then that wouldn't be someone we'd really want to follow for the movie, you know, be like, oh, come on, you can't see that, you know, but French is so funny. And we did these magical improvs, you know, in rehearsal that where you just really bought, you understood what they were trying to get back to the good times of the childhood, even taking her to meet your dates as a kid. 

French Stewart  •  21:40
It was that day of rehearsal was that told me everything because you, you know, sometimes you come in and it's work. And this one, I think the first time we did a scene together just sitting at the table, I thought, oh, this is kind of just happening. And then Tracy would ask one of us to step out of the room while she talked to someone. And then you'd come back and you'd do it again. And then it would be different. And then she would talk to me and then, you know. And so it was one of those things where there were a couple of times where we would get a few in. And then I would think right at the point where I would think, oh, I don't know if we want to mess with this too much. Tracy would say, I don't know if we want to mess with that. And then we would do these improvs that were wonderful. And each scene kind of felt that way. And then, of course, once you get it on its feet and you're in a circumstance with the actual world, it changes a little bit. But I think that we did all this work and then just sort of allowed ourselves to let it be and throw it away and not get too attached to anything. I don't remember really people saying no to anything. We tried everything. Nobody was like, I don't want to do that or don't try that. It was very open that way. 

Tracy Layman  •  22:55
And French is such an incredible actor with so much to offer that in the edit room, Anisha and I were like, there's so many good things here. And also Barbie and John. You know, I had so many options because we were playing, we were really playing. And so we got to craft these performances. It just, you know, you hear about these stories about people having to cut around an actor. It was the complete opposite with us. It was like, we have way too much good stuff. What are we going to do? 

Brandon Ferry  •  23:18
Just killing a darling. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, even when it came to the writing, I just really want to ask about that because I feel like in the hands of like a lesser writer and director, I really could see somebody interpreting that character as lonely and kind of pathetic. But I feel like you towed that line of like lonely, but somebody who's so hopeful. Yeah. That's still somebody the audience roots for. I don't even know how you would write that, honestly, you know, just and find that nuance. 

Tracy Layman  •  23:43
I think when you grew up in an environment like she did and kind of like I did, or like I did. I think it's actually a smart thing to go about it this way, because it's the one way you figured out how to get what you need, you know? So I think treating the characters with real respect, like they're not just making these choices because they're not smart, they're making these choices because that's how they've survived. Even Robert Trevino, this is how he survived, how he survived whatever he went through as a kid, because he said, you sure had a better dad than I did, you know? So we don't know what that was, but it must have been pretty bad, you know? And he had to adapt, and Lily Trivino had to adapt. And so I think the thing for me is, like we said, never just treating French's character like he was a bad guy. He was a hurt person. And Lily was going to need to learn boundaries and learn to take care of herself, but he wasn't necessarily a villain, you know? And that Lily was not a doormat, but a survivor. 

French Stewart  •  24:32
And we've been talking about the improv bits, which are there, but the vast majority of it, it's on the page. You know, you really sculpted this beautiful script and it's really, it's there. It's all, that was part of the lovely thing. Because as an actor, there are a lot of times that you're working with material, especially in television, that you have to justify or you have to dig to make some reason out of it. And this was one of those where you read it and you went, oh, it's there. It's right there. All you have to do is really commit to it and make it deeper and then commit to the other person. But the script, the work was there. We felt it on the page. 

Brandon Ferry  •  25:12
I feel like even the directing too, I think that's something that we're able to get in her head so much. During the Q&A, you had mentioned just how you did depict anxiety, especially when it came to your lead character almost getting hit by a car and then really put it in her frame of mind. So how did you come up with just that idea to make the anxiety so visceral on screen? 

Tracy Layman  •  25:34
Well, I think part of this that I'd love to share is that I really look at every shot with what are the characters thinking and what are they feeling, not what do they look like. And I think that's a real feminine POV and a feminine lens to put on stories. And the good eye, like I talked about last night, like looking at our characters with a good eye. When you're looking at what people are thinking or feeling, then you're having compassion for them, you know, and it's to some level trying to understand. And so when she's having these anxiety attacks, it's so easy to other her, you know, to say, well, I'm not having that. You're freaking out, you know, instead of saying, well, I'm going to put myself in your shoes and I'm going to feel what you're feeling. And then that's why I had the car almost hit her because you hear the audience like gasp, like, oh, no. And your nervous system for a split second is like we were just in danger. Well, danger to her is conflict. All conflict is danger to Lily Trevino in the beginning of this movie. She's never had an experience where conflict was safe, you know, and you're the good Bob. is saying, hey, I'm going to stay. It's okay. We can talk about it and all this stuff. But all she's had is abandonment, anger, rage from French's Bob. So I think the more I can just make people feel that, make people laugh with her, not at her. I use special lenses. John Rosario, the DP, and I use special lenses so that when she's having this kind of glimmer, like a good shock to good things that she's never experienced, we're feeling that along with her. And also even the sound design. For me, when I would have a panic attack or kind of a trigger of past trauma, the sound would kind of go out and things that were really far away would sound close and things that were close would sound far away. My brain would focus on the sounds I needed to to feel safe. And so when French is, I'll say Robert Trevino, not French, he's a wonderful person. When his character is berating her in the diner, we did a lot of sound design so that you in the audience would be like, oh, this is uncomfortable. And once he says, you look just like your mother, It changes. The sound design changes to this traumatized thing that I had experienced. So I think having gone through it myself a lot gave me empathy for her and an ability to try to put people in that space. I hope that makes sense. 

French Stewart  •  27:31
Yeah, I felt it was depicted incredibly well. And yeah. I basically went to college to learn how to mess with people's heads. I hope you're happy. 

Brandon Ferry  •  27:42
Yeah, and I really want to jump into just the production I found really fascinating because you all filmed in Louisville, Kentucky. Is that right? Yeah. And that was during the writer's strike too. 

Tracy Layman  •  27:50
It was during the writer's strike. 

Brandon Ferry  •  27:51
As independent, not studio filming funded movie. 

Tracy Layman  •  27:54
We were non-union except for SAG. Our actors were SAG, obviously. I got $1 for the script. Of course, I was producing, so I paid myself $1 because I couldn't afford to have anything not on the screen. But the first day of our shooting was the first day of the actor's strike. So we were allowed to finish the day and we lost the second day. I mean, we love SAG. They were really trying to help us. They understood that we were really and truly independent film and that we were not the enemy. We were wanting to work with them. And that third morning, early, early in the morning, we got noticed that we were getting the waiver. So I signed the interim agreement. But we overcame a lot of obstacles like that. Thunderstorms. French had to drive back and forth a couple of times from Atlanta because the first time he drove out, he was all dressed and ready to go. And then the thunderstorm, and then he had to come back. You were such a good sport. 

French Stewart  •  28:44
No, it is what it is. Sometimes you can't control the weather. You can't control. There were various hardships where you lose a day here, you lose a day there, or something just surprising happens. But that's how it is. And it usually ends up taking as much time as you have. It's one of those, they used to say, gone with the wind in the morning, dukes of hazard at night. You're doing your beautiful tracking shots in the morning, and then suddenly it's like, oh, pull out the Steadicam. We got to crap out some art here. 

Tracy Layman  •  29:18
30 minutes to do three more shots. 

Brandon Ferry  •  29:21
It seems pretty fitting, too. Right after the screening, just a couple hours later, we were under a tornado warning. With the alarms going off during the last movie here in Champaign. So it seems a little fitting. 

Tracy Layman  •  29:33
Exactly. You learn to roll with it. Just keep everybody safe. 

Brandon Ferry  •  29:38
So just some really excellent accolades the movie has earned. just winning the grand jury award, an audience award at South by Southwest in 2024, playing Tribeca. And I'm not surprised by this, just based on the audience engagement yesterday, but earning a pretty rare A-plus cinema score as well. I mean, how do you take all that? I mean, for a story like this that seems, say, just, you know, very lived in and through your own eyes, what is it like just to see audiences being so receptive to it and feel like it's a very universal experience? 

Tracy Layman  •  30:09
It's life-changing in the best way because for someone like me, I put it into the story that I was kind of told I wasn't really listened to. I was kind of told my stories or my point of view didn't really matter and things like that. And so to have something where I was the most me I could possibly be, and I've leaned into all my vulnerability in this film and in the writing and the directing and all the actors gave everything. To have that be the thing that has touched people the most is overwhelmingly beautiful. And it gives me a sense of purpose and fuel to keep going because I thought that if I were all the way me, I would lose people. But what happened is I gained the right people. And I learned that there are so many pockets of people that have been through similar things or have friends who've been through similar things. And how specificity is universal. You know, I'm getting messages from all around the world with, you know, I have to translate them a lot of the time. I don't even, you know, many different languages. And so, yeah, and I think the other thing is that when this first started happening, when we were at South Bay and we got the award, there's a video online and I was crying in a way I had never cried before. And French put his hand on my head to pat me. This was in the video. But it was this deep, cathartic kind of cry because you want your story to matter. For me, I want it to affect people and I want it to heal me and through healing myself somehow help others heal. And that is what this has done. And I've kind of had to build a tolerance towards joy and not deflecting compliments and things like that. And I guess the best thing is that I do feel like I found a lot of my own chosen family making this film. You know, French and his wife are very near and dear to me. John Leguizamo and his family, Barbie, you know, everybody is so incredible and gives me a lot of hope. You know, there's a lot of things that can take away our hope when we look out at the industry right now and what's going on with the arts. But I just look at these incredible artists and I have a lot of hope. 

French Stewart  •  31:54
It's rare. I mean, for me, I've been, you know, I'm in my early 60s. I've been doing this for 40 years and it goes up and it goes down. And I have a family. I am very pragmatic about what I do. And so when I'm doing art, I'm art. You know, that's it. I'm doing art. And when I'm going to work, I'm going to work. And sometimes they're two very different things. But when something like this happens where it's just pure joy, the same kind of joy you get from doing a play, but there's evidence of it. It's lovely. And so the fact that we've gotten so much fun out of this and so much joy and so much pride in it for as long as we have, because it's been, you know, a few years since we made it, it's lovely, you know, and it refreshes you. It freshens up your heart and it changes the way you feel about yourself and it reminds you of the stuff you do want to do 

Brandon Ferry  •  32:50
so it's been you know joy and I will say just like after the screening yesterday I did have a number of students colleges behind me and they were like an it's a lady bird and I was like that's interesting I mean I kind of thought about that it was like I think I could really see kind of the connection of like a really strong comedy of a lot of pathos too yeah yeah so that was something I really enjoyed and I was like oh I guess that's how you know a younger generation might see it 

Tracy Layman  •  33:12
Yeah. Well, that's a real compliment. Yeah. 

Brandon Ferry  •  33:15
I really liked Eighth Grade. 

Tracy Layman  •  33:16
Yeah, Eighth Grade. Eighth Grade was one of our comps. So I made a lookbook, obviously, and a deck. And Eighth Grade was the emotional comp because I feel like it's a late coming-of-age story. That was my favorite movie that year. I loved it. That was shot totally with a feminine gaze. Like, every shot in that film is, what is she thinking? What is she feeling? It never objectifies anybody, really. Yeah. Yeah. The relationship with the dad is so beautiful. With a fire. Oh, my God. They have that talk by the fire. It's great, yeah. 

Brandon Ferry  •  33:43
Don't get me started. All of the Bo Burnham, but it was nice to see your female perspective. 

Tracy Layman  •  33:47
Yeah, yeah. 

Brandon Ferry  •  33:49
Bo Burnham's female perspective is excellent too. Don't get me wrong, but. 

Tracy Layman  •  33:52
You don't have to be a woman or identify as she, her, to tell a story with a feminine gaze. 

Brandon Ferry  •  33:56
Absolutely. Yeah, and just as we do get to wrapping up, just want to hear more about upcoming projects from both of you. You know, what can we see next from Layman Terms, your production company? And I'll just love to hear, I saw many upcoming in-development projects in the YouTube front, so. 

Tracy Layman  •  34:13
And he's directing, he's directing. Yeah, I don't know if I can say that. I'd love to hear how old I am. Yeah, you want to go first? 

French Stewart  •  34:18
Oh, okay, yeah. I wrote a sort of office comedy slash midlife crisis movie, just a little movie, and I'm going to be starring in it. And I can't talk about too much of it, but I'm also, they've talked me into directing it. And so now this is the point where Tracy's ear is going to be bent beyond repair. 

Tracy Layman  •  34:37
Please. 

French Stewart  •  34:37
But I'm really looking forward to that. I just got done doing Alabama Shakespeare Festival, which is lovely, and recurring on Tulsa King, the Sylvester Stallone thing. So I plod along, you know, like move along. I've got a lovely family in Atlanta and spend time with them. 

Tracy Layman  •  34:54
And I wrote another one that's similar in tone to this one, also loosely inspired by, more loosely than the last, but inspired by some real stuff and definitely some real emotional truth for me. Right now that's called I Won't Be Here Long, but we'll see if the title changes. And also it's been announced that I am to write and direct this Mattel movie, Tony the Tattooed Man. So we'll see what they let me say about that. But I'm very excited about it. I fell in love with the discontinued toy. I love the people. Mattel is just incredible. And I'm just hoping for the best with that. That's a big deal. Yeah, yeah. And it's just, yeah, I'm afraid of what to say. But all I can say is I just love them. I love them and I love the project. 

Brandon Ferry  •  35:30
I can say I'm very excited for that. So I'm excited to see the projects in both of you. And especially just when it comes to what's next. of what you can be writing and your future work as well. So French, Tracy, thank you so much for joining today. Thank you. Yeah. And for those who have not been able to have the pleasure of seeing this in the big screen at Ebert Fest, it is streaming currently. Bob Trevino likes it on Hulu. 

Tracy Layman  •  35:51
On Hulu, or you can write and buy it pretty much on any platform. But maybe watch it with someone because the whole point is to talk about it afterwards. So that's one thing I think we're missing with streaming is that we like, and what I think Roger Ebert was really, really about is talking after the movie, And that we don't really get that when we watch it alone at home on a streamer. So just even a community can be two people. Yeah. 

French Stewart  •  36:13
And this was really sort of a nice way for us to wrap things up with the movie a little bit by coming to Eberfest. Because there's a special vibe at this festival. There's a joy in it and a joy in the audience and a pride in the town and in what Roger Ebert meant and what Chaz has done with this. And for this to wind down this way is really special, really special. 

Brandon Ferry  •  36:38
Yeah. And not to put you both in my spot, but just remember after you mentioned that, how Chaz does like to ask guests of, you know, what movie would you like to be in or be part of in the past? 

Tracy Layman  •  36:48
In the past, Little Miss Sunshine for me, it's pretty much my North Star and everything because they're flawed, lovable people. They do unlikable things. They make bad decisions, but you never really shame. The camera never shames them. The directing never shames them. They're all just doing their best. And it has so much heart, you know? And it's not toxically positive at all, which I'm not for. It's, like you said, heart and pathos and humor. You can have humor in that, too. So, anyway, it's my North Star. 

French Stewart  •  37:14
For me, it would probably be Ferris Bueller's Day Off. I just love that movie. It's like just sort of this, you know, and the John Hughes stuff, it can get a little bit sketchy. But at the same time, I just think it's sort of this joy of embracing life. And then, oh, Defending Your Life. 

Tracy Layman  •  37:30
Oh, that's good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

French Stewart  •  37:31
I love that movie. I just love that movie. 

Tracy Layman  •  37:34
If I could go with French, I think I'd love to go to Lost in America, the set of Lost in America together and just like laugh in the corner all day. Yeah, that would be great. I think we're both Albert Brooks fans. 

Brandon Ferry  •  37:44
Awesome. Excellent picks. And yeah, thank you both so much. Thank you. 

VO  •  37:48
Thanks for everything. Thanks for listening to Media Maker Spotlight from Women in Film and Video. To learn more about WIF, visit wif.frankv.org. This podcast is produced by Sandra Abrams, Candice Block, Brandon Ferry, Tara Jabari, and Jerry Reinhart. And edited by Michelle Kim. With audio production and mix by Steve Lack Audio and Ed Saltzman. Subscribe to continue learning from more amazing media makers. Please visit MediaMakerSpotlight.com for more information.